Is it one of the fundamental questions? Of course, it is! Beyond any of the speculations specific to our times, we find a clear and verifiable answer from the Athonite monk Theologos, resident of the Cell of The Entry of the Most Holy Theotokos into the Temple, Lakkoskiti, Mount Athos.
Enjoy!
Dear friends, we are here again with father Theologos, in the Holy Mountain, at the cell of the Entrance of the Theotokos to the Temple, of Lacu Skete.
This time, with the permission of father Theologos, we will address a topic which we consider should be at least in the top 3, in the first place, of course, being the subject related to salvation, eternity, sanctification…
The creation of the world. It is a subject that we find out about even in elementary school, we discuss it in high school, sometimes even in university.
It is apparently a problem that is not resolved definitively, because, on one hand, science says some things, on the other hand, the Orthodox faith, shows us very clearly and explains very clearly how things happened, however, for a better and more efficient understanding, I have asked, and am asking, father Theologos to expand on this subject, starting with the obvious question which is:
Who created this world?
Father Theologos: Yes… The answer is simple, because, we are Orthodox and we believe in God not because in the scripture it says that God created the world, we believe in God and are Orthodox because we see the therapeutic effects, the salvific effects of Orthodoxy.
We saw that Someone resurrected. We see that we also get rid of our existential problems, we see that we become better, we see that we become personalities, while outside of Orthodoxy there is chaos. There is chaos. I do not want to offend now, but we see what is happening in the other areas in which sin is ongoing, that is, sin is exploding – to speak plainly.
Since we believe and see in ourselves these results of faith, then of course we will believe our Lord Jesus Christ, and we will believe that God is Savior for us, and so we will believe God Who said that He made the world.
Besides this, there are some…if you wish…logical arguments. Meaning, as St. John of Damascus says: All things are either created or uncreated. The things that are created have to be created by a creator. Right?
The creator in turn is either created or uncreated. And if the creator is created, then in turn he must be created by someone else, and continuing in this way, through mathematical induction, we eventually reach at the end an uncreated Creator, yes? Who is above all.
And since we are people and are alive, of course the Creator, to generate a person, to create a person, to create someone who is alive, has to know about this and be above it.
So God is alive, and personal.
From there on, there is a whole discussion about who this God is, the Holy Trinity and so on. We can go into the details but, as I said, I have answered your question through a logical argument, and also through a spiritual-therapeutic argument. Meaning we see in ourselves that God is right – that Orthodoxy is right in the healing of our ailments – and then of course we believe the other things that God says, meaning that God created the world in 7 days for example.
Now what the 7 days mean… this we do not know. Since the 4th century, the Holy Fathers say, that the 7 days are actually 7 periods. We do not know. Others say that they are 24 hours, others say that they are 7 periods, as I said.
These are mysteries and it is not good to go into these details, because we do not have a revelation from God.
Well, the Holy Fathers have said that there are the two opinions, some who even say that there are 7 periods, others who say that it is about 7×24 hours. But, as I said, we do not get into this, especially because it is not useful to our salvation, it does not help in the healing of our soul. A spiritual child was asking an Abba: He said, “Father, from Adam to Christ are there 5508 years? And the respective Abba said, – the father said – “Son, if this is what is missing for your salvation, I will personally look into it.” Understand?
This is not a…salvific spirit, an Orthodox spirit to search into all kinds of things like this.
These come from Protestantism, who – poor them – do not have the idea of salvation, do not have the idea of eternity, do not have the idea of God, and that is why they occupy themselves with these things, the famous discussions between science and religion. Do you understand?
That is the problem, Chris, because first of all we occupy ourselves with the healing of our souls, and we see in ourselves the healing of our soul, for us this conversation is secondary, and it is especially secondary because we have another source of knowing, which is the revelation from God. We do not need digging and scientific methods to find out the truth of faith, the revealed truth.
And as I said, scientific truth for Orthodoxy is completely and utterly secondary, of course it helps in a small way, to make a better life for ourselves here on earth and so on.
Chris: Well, especially for a better understanding, especially to help our friends to form an objective opinion on this subject, which I repeat, is very important to understand who we are, where we come from, and finally to understand what our course is, I will be slightly skeptical in this dialog and I present you with the following situation: In our formative years, at school let’s say, generally speaking, we learn that life on earth, the universe, were created following certain happy accidents.
We have a Big Bang which was triggered by some reason that is still beyond us, and the appearance of life on earth is the result of a happy accident, as I said, certain conditions were met, some chemical elements combined in the form of primordial amino acids and in this way this biodiversity appeared.
Of course, at one point the monkey became wise and this accidental act of creation continued and man appeared, and so on. We are the fruit of an accidental course, but a happy one.
What can we say in this context to some people, who, until now, learned and are learning at school, and in high school and in university these things which even science tells us, and many scientists at the highest levels, recognized and recognize that there is a barrier, a limit beyond which they cannot cross. And they accept, at least formally, that we are speaking of a superconsciousness, some pronounce the name of God and so on. Please comment on this.
Father Theologos: Yes, Chris, I told you, the great problem is not the amino acids, yes, scientists have discovered amino acids…
Chris: That is what we learn at school, and you have learned the same thing…
Father Theologos: Yes, good, ok. The problem is, what do I do with my soul? The problem is that a person is depressive, that a person no longer gets along with his wife, a person is full of sin.
Heal these sins, heal these illnesses and then God who will enter inside you, will inform you that these things are wrong. I said this. Yes, at school this is taught. It is a hypothesis. But, the moment that a person gets closer to God, in that moment they will learn the other things. They will learn that man did not come from monkeys.
Of course here there are all types of arguments…
Chris: Forgive me, will they learn or will they understand, because the only one that teaches this so far is the Church?
Father Theologos: Just a moment, to understand each other. The learning that I am referring to, and the understanding is not the scientific learning. Meaning the one learned in books. Rather you will learn inside yourself, like how, for example, a woman learns, knows, understands that she is pregnant. Yes? We men cannot know how a woman knows that she is pregnant, but she knows. Do you understand?
Chris: We find out after.
Father Theologos: Yes, we find out after, when she tells us, but we do not have the experience of this exclusively feminine, but otherwise very beautiful phenomenon. In the same way when a person has the experience of God, in that moment, as I said, God, through different ways, informs them that it is not so. It is not so.
Now, I know what you are referring to, you are referring to how to bring children to the Church. Yes, that’s right…
Chris: And how to help them to not think that science is lying or deforms, just that it’s all it could comprehend.
Father Theologos: First of all, just a second… First of all the Church is not according to votes. So we do not pursue fans, proselytes, faithful. We, first of all, take care of the sanctification of our souls, it is a total change of the system of values, we occupy ourselves with our sanctification, and when you see a saint, for example St. Dumitru Stăniloaie, St. Justin Popović, St. Cleopas and others, when you see the respective person: how holy they are, how healed they are, how noble they are, see the personality they are, and that respective person says, man did not come from monkeys.
Because man has a completely different structure of thinking than a monkey, understand? And man has, as I said actually in a previous podcast where I discussed the subject of reincarnation at length, when a saint says this, you, wishing to be like the respective saint, you listen to that saint.
If someone from the west comes, who has not resolved their own problems, Darwin for example, who married his cousin, understand? And says that man came from the monkey… Well, ok, whoever wants to marry their cousin and to break up, and to have a sad life and so on, (I am not speaking of Darwin now, I am speaking generally of the western spirit) then they can believe in that direction. Do you understand?
We cannot partially take certain things from Orthodoxy and leave others aside since Orthodoxy is saying something. Because, once again, we are speaking of a treatment which is global.
And this is where faith comes in. Because people think that they have to cross themselves, pray, and so on. It’s not only this.
We have to take on everything, including this subject of the creation of the world and of course we will take it as a mystery in the Church. Meaning, we do not know exactly what is meant by the 7 days, we do not know certain things from there, but if we are told this, than this is how it is.
Understand? Because we have seen the beneficial effects of Orthodoxy on us. The sanctifying effects. Do you understand? The good that comes upon us, the sanctification, the love, joy, all these things. Westerners are very unhappy.
Of course westerners are not unhappy because they frontally believe all this nonsense, rather westerners are very unhappy because of their way of thinking which comes with this as a package deal.
Of course, you want to descend me to a protestant level, that is, for me to tell you who made the Big Bang…
Chris: No, no, no, I am not proposing to descend anywhere, just to help clarify…
Father Theologos: To tell you why… Because if one does not follow this therapeutic effect of Orthodoxy, this healing effect of Orthodoxy, you can shoot a canon, it is useless.
Where do you put the fact that the Big Bang, the idea of the Big Bang was the discovery of a priest, I don’t know if you know. A Catholic priest.
So, what I want to say is that alright, it is possible to discuss, as I said, and speaking of Big Bang, I have explained before, there needs to be a Creator, He who does the Big Bang has to be personal, to be personal, intelligent, above everything.
So the Big Bang, some amino acids randomly cannot generate intelligence, cannot generate thought. Thought is something else. Love is something else. Love is not… Or the smile… The smile is not 27 muscles that move on the face of a person. Understand?
It is something completely different. So it cannot be by chance. If you went on a planet right now, and found a watch there which is functioning perfectly, would you say that the watch is a product of chance? No.
Chris: Categorically no. Someone made, it but who?
Father Theologos: Yes, ok, that is not important. It is important that somebody made it. Well, who made it is the subject of Theology.
It is the same here on earth. If a watch, in your opinion, is not the effect of chance, even more so a whole person is not the effect of chance, who of course is much more complex than the watch. And, once again, we are speaking of the human soul. The big problem is the human soul, the human soul which is not a pile of cells like someone said, or a stack of amino acids. Let’s be serious. Understand?
That is why westerners have gotten into all these carnal things and so on, because they ignore the soul. And from there they experience the effects of ignoring their soul. Meaning they are drowning in the carnal, their have a ruined life, they do not have a future.
Music for example, or poetry. Poetry is made by some amino acids… let’s be serious. Do you understand?
So this is… This is evidence that somebody exists, there is a God, but once again, the way to get there is the way of healing your soul. Because otherwise, as I said, you can give lots of quotes and so on that everything is the product of chance.
They are not, brethren, the product of chance. Do you understand? And, as I said, there are even big books written on this subject written by a scientist, Richard Dawkins is his name, who has written continually, with a visceral hatred, with envy and with a visceral stubbornness against the existence of God.
Why? Because he concluded that DNA is a code and of course DNA is a code, it is a genetic code, but man is much higher than DNA. The human soul is not found in the DNA. Do you understand? This is a great mystery. It cannot be explained, as I said, based on some amino acids that a person wishes to sing, or to write poetry. All these things.
Of course, on the other hand, there are a lot of… I even read a book, it is actually called The Dawkins Delusion, because Dawkins had written the book The God Delusion, which was trying to prove… if you read the book you will become completely atheist. There were books written by very reputable professors from Oxford, through which they prove that Dawkins does not prove anything. He does not prove it and especially, as I was saying, he does not explain the sense, the existence of the soul, he does not explain especially the healing of the person.
Because if someone wishes to become visceral, like Dawkins, all respect to him, but he truly has a lot of anger, he is very well-read, and I have all the respect for his erudition, but the moment you are continually in a fight against God, your whole life is a troubled life.
That is the result. While a person who is in God, even though they have tribulations, the man is peaceful. The person is peaceful.
I am interested in being peaceful, I am not interested in not being peaceful.
This is why, as I said, we have to get off this level, which is of a protestant origin of the discussion between, of the relationship between, science and faith.
Yes, because we are not healed. It is true that there are people, – and all my respect to them – who apologetically speaking, try to show evidence of how science and faith do not contradict, and it is true that they do not contradict, but, once again, this is secondary.
That is why, on the Holy Mountain, we do not occupy ourselves too much with these types of things, and we occupy ourselves with prayer. And the moment you pray, then at that moment you know God and you feel God like how, as I said, a woman feels that she is pregnant.
And then everything else fades. That’s when all the problems are resolved. And all the problems are resolved, not because I know how God made amino acids, because this is completely secondary, I am interested in being like God, meaning to be joyful, to be spiritual to be almighty, to be beyond time and space.
And of course this will happen, for those who become worthy, after death, but also here on earth for us who are humble it will happen, for each to our own measure, and we will no longer have all these concerns, like how the 7 days of Genesis fit with the scientific narrative, that is, that the earth is millions and millions of years old. That is God’s business. Understand? This does not bother me or keep me from being happy.
As a great writer said, “I am not interested in the things that are not written in Scripture. I am interested in what is written in the Scripture.” Understand? Because the evidence that Scripture is true, or that Orthodoxy is true is my experience, our experience.
And if we do not have this experience within ourselves there can be thunder and lightening and we still won’t be convinced. Do you understand? As I said, it is good that there are these manuals of apologetics and these discussions, all very good, but they are secondary. We need to become sanctified, and when we are sanctified, like how St. Dumitru Stăniloae or the others said, then our light will shine.
Of course, who wishes to listen, will listen, who doesn’t… may the good God help. Of course there is a need for missionary work but, as I said, it is secondary.
Chris: Evidently we are now discussing it in a clearly spiritual context, and with the sole reason of permanently reminding of some things which are sure. When we pronounce the word “Truth” it is synonymous with “God” and…
Father Theologos: It is a Person.
Chris: It is a Person. Good. Now, why these questions come up sometimes, including for you, is because from this western culture a multitude of ways are permanently and constantly being delivered through which this information is not only diverted but it is drawn to extremely dangerous areas. And then your role and our role is to permanently maintain this information as being the one that can also be verified.
Father Theologos: How can you verify that the person is made from amino acids, meaning, that man is made randomly from amino acids? I ask scientists to make a single living cell from amino acids. Then we can discuss…
Chris: They have tried and did not succeed.
Father Theologos: Yes, then we can discuss. Yes, millions and millions of years… I don’t think so. Let them create one and then we will discuss afterwards.
Chris: Well, no, if you want we can open a parenthesis under this aspect and we can say – and this information can also be verified – how for about 40 years it has been tried very hard… F
ather Theologos: Well, you cannot.
Chris:… The recreation, in primordial conditions in a laboratory, they wanted to see how this amino acid was created. They did not succeed.
Father Theologos. I know. And it is even different, meaning, you do not need to generate primordial conditions, you can actually take the substances that the amino acid is made of or so on synthesize it…
Chris: …combine it and give it life.
Father Theologos: Yes, combine it and give it life. Do this.
Chris: So they gave up, and I repeat this can be verified, and those many scientists – who had many academic accolades – expressed that this is the limit, we cannot give life.
Father Theologos: Yes, alright. I say, they should not waste their time. But if people want to… They are free to do so, they have funding…ok.
Chris: Sometimes things need to be researched as well.
Father Theologos: Yes, alright, but as I said, researched with a goal. You research having a goal. That is, I research this forest for mushrooms, for wood for something… So now, you research this to find a cell to give it life, to what? To make synthetic people? Let’s be serious. That is, any normal person, or any person, what will they do, let’s say you made a living cell… Yes, you will receive the Nobel prize, very probably, of course it is clear that it is not possible, but let’s just say, and then what?
Chris: What will you do with it?
Father Theologos: What will you do with it? Understand? Because there is a phenomenal complexity to making an organism that does something. Meaning what are you going to make? Computer chips? Since everyone is now fighting about the chip coming and swallowing us up…
Understand? Or nanorobots? It is true that they exist, and they are of a chemical origin not a technological origin, brethren, let’s not go into the details since..
Chris: We are going into a subject..
Father Theologos: In different area.
Chris: In a provocative topic.
Father Theologos: That’s right, but in any case, returning, people often research without thinking of the sense. And this is the great problem of atheism. Meaning they have no sense. They have a lack of sense.
What is this universe made for? Why do we do something… Of course, they comfort themselves that it is for money. OK…but man is above money. Man is above money. Not everything can be bought with money, as you well know.
Chris: There is another issue which I am sure that you can bring into this context to understand very efficiently. Namely, many of us ask ourselves how can many characters, such as the saints, the Mother of God, be present in so many places at the same time.
Let us assume that right now 10 thousand people are praying to the Mother of God, since we are here in her garden. Father Theologos: And she is here with us in this recording. She is with us, she is in Bucharest, Pitești, Vâlcea, and other 9999 places.
Father Theologos: Yes…
Chris: I will make just a small parallel between what science managed to understand but did not translate. If you consider to make a translation in this regard, I think it will be welcome. We have the year 2013, the particle accelerator from Switzerland they discovered and it became clear that there is an elementary particle named The God Particle, Higgs boson, the physician Higgs, but they did not translate, they did not say something that I, who am not a great physician, will say, I am just a seeker of truths, at the basis of matter there is actually a particle which…
Father Theologos: There are fields…
Chris: There are fields… Alright, this particle is energy and matter when it wants, it can be present in many places at the same time, and these particles communicate instantly between themselves.
Father Theologos: Yes, it is like that somewhat. I even read a book…
Chris: I have said the simple version so that we can all understand.
Father Theologos: I even read a book about the discovery, I actually read it in English about the one who – not about Higgs – the book was not written by Higgs, the preface was written by Higgs, the book was written by a scientist who was involved in this whole process. It is not like that.
Since God is beyond the spacetime continuum, God made the spacetime continuum, in the same way, saints are beyond the spacetime continuum.
Yes, it’s true that this matter is tempting that at the foundation of matter is energy. Einstein also said this, that E = mc^2, meaning m=e/c^2. I have said this and discussed this at length in my word on the feast of the Transfiguration, you can search for it on our site: An Athonite Cell and you will find it there, the word at the feast of the Transfiguration, from last year, and I spoke on this subject, that actually matter is a form of energy. And I gave some very nice examples there…
Well, if matter is a form of energy, this does not mean that light, which is also a form or energy, can be in many places at the same time. Pay attention here, this is a property of God. And since the saints are in the image AND likeness of God, they can be beyond time and space.
I know what you are referring to, to the fact that it is not localized, that it, it is not a ball… Even the electron is not a ball, it is a cloud. And light, as a form of energy it has an undulating nature, because light sometimes behaves as a particle and sometimes as wave. And this was discovered by Louis de Broglie in the 19th century, in the year 1800-something.
Going back to what we were saying, as I said, the soul is not matter, the soul is not matter in the fleshly sense. Understand? So then the laws of physics cannot be applied to it. It is true that Higgs boson is important, because it shows the unitary nature of this created world because Higgs boson actually explains the presence of gravity, and it explains mass. Meaning, how bodies manage to have mass. But we are entering into some very technical things.
In any case, going back to what we were saying, the Mother of God and the saints and so on, can be in the same place, at the same time not because they are basing themselves on Higgs boson, or on all types of other things, but rather because they resemble God, that is the Creator of time and space. And so they can go in the past, brethren.
Meaning they are beyond time, like I said of Melchizedek. I have spoken on this subject, once again search, if I am not mistaken, the post on the feast day of St. Nicholas, or for Christmas, in any case, in which I spoke on the saints being beyond time, and so they can go into the past, and one of the most beautiful things we can see in the past, are the passions of the Lord, the passions of the Lord and the Resurrection of the Lord. And then Chris, we will see the creation of the world at the scene.
Because this is what beyond time means, beyond time does not mean that I disappear from here and appear in Karyes, 20km away.
It means I am actually beyond time and space… let’s understand each other.
And this is heaven, brethren. Heaven is not a beautiful garden, a meadow like this little meadow here. Heaven is much superior and I will make a post specifically on this subject. Follow the site if you still have the courage to follow it.
Chris: That is a permanent invitation because your productions have an essential role exactly in this sense of understanding things how they really are and in explaining some phenomena which, I am going back, are being explained to us at least differently, and sometimes, unfortunately, diverted from the reality.
Father Theologos: Yes, yes…and we are talking of an explanation… so man has this fallen mind, this human mind, so we imagine, as we were saying by the way of heaven, we imagine that heaven is a meadow, a very beautiful garden, with little lambs frolicking playfully, and with trees and little birds chirping…yes. It is not so. It is something completely and utterly different.
In the same way, the appearance and disappearance of the saints, because, as I said, being beyond space and time, for them time and space do not exist. There is no time through the overcoming of time. But we are already getting into all sorts of other details.
Chris: A different subject.
Father Theologos: Yes, a different subject.
Chris: Good. That’s it for today, I thank you.
Father Theologos: May the good God help.
Chris: Thank you for all your explanations. Dear friends, the interviews conducted by me with father Theologos, with father Pimen, and other fathers, you will find in the archive of my YouTube channel. There is a button which YouTube has recently gifted us with and it is called “Thanks” if you appreciate the information that you find in these places, you can use that button, “Thanks” it helps us, in a concrete way, to be able to continue.
The site which father Theologos takes care of and fuels weekly…
Father Theologos: Daily!
Chris: Daily! With very consistent information: An Athonite Cell – Joys from Mount Athos is available to you and you can find out things which explain life as it is, and evidently, at the end of these explanations, the meaning and goal is found, the reason why we struggle to understand and do something about it.
Father Theologos: You can find the truth. I believe. Because I am not just posting our material, mine and that of father Pimen, we are nothing, but also from great theologians, and great people illumined by God, I believe, from Greek speaking Orthodoxy, Romanian of course, English speaking, and even, as I said, from people who have influenced human history. Because there is still the ability to think outside of Orthodoxy, but very rarely, because people are, as I said, preoccupied with matter. People are occupied with the material, there are very intelligent people, much more intelligent than ourselves, outside of Orthodoxy, but, unfortunately, for them it is much harder to get out of the thicket of atheism, of the thicket of lack of explanations in which they find themselves.
Chris: Dear friends, I would like to express one more idea: we are not the effect of an accident, rather we are the fruit of a creation, and this makes us responsible. Thank you once again.
Father Theologos: May the good Lord help! Christ is Risen!
Chris: Truly He is Risen! God help us.
Father Theologos: God help us!
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